Trust on Purpose
Are you intentional about building, maintaining or repairing trust with the people in your life? Most of us aren’t, and sometimes important relationships suffer as a result. So much of what is right or amiss in those relationships ties back to trust, whether we realize it or not. We are dedicated to helping you become intentional about cultivating strong trust with everyone important in your life: the people and teams you lead and work with, and your family, friends and community, as well. In the Trust on Purpose podcast, we dive into everything that makes up trust, what supports and damages it. We unpack situations we commonly see with leaders, teams, organizations, and others we work with to show how trust can be strengthened, sustained, and repaired when broken. Listen in for conversations between two pros who care deeply about you being an intentional and masterful trust-builder in your life so you and your relationships flourish. We share pragmatic and actionable takeaways you can use immediately and deepen with practice. If you have questions or situations related to trust that you’d like us to talk about in a future episode, please email charles@insightcoaching.com or ila@bigchangeinc.com.
We'd like to thank the team that continues to support us in producing, editing and sharing our work. Jonah Smith for the heartfelt intro music that you hear at the beginning of each podcast. We LOVE it. Hillary Rideout for writing descriptions, designing covers and helping us share our work on social media. Chad Penner for the superpower editing work that he does to take our recordings from bumpy and glitchy to the smooth and easy to listen to episodes you are all enjoying. From our hearts, we are so thankful for this team and the support they provide us.
Trust on Purpose
Great workplaces: who's responsibility is it?
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Today, we’re diving into a question that strikes at the heart of workplace dynamics: can a truly great workplace happen without a team-wide effort, or is it solely the leader's responsibility? We draw inspiration from Tom Geraghty's insightful perspective from a recent conversation: "A great workplace is worth working for." We’re flipping the usual script on who drives work dynamics and culture. Spoiler: everyone does - for better or worse! We explore why having clear, candid conversations about workplace culture isn’t just nice-to-have, but essential. And how sudden shifts, like unexpected return-to-office mandates, can impact employee morale and trust.
Inspired by Adam Grant’s "Think Again," we tackle the importance of challenging old assumptions and encouraging tough conversations. From small improvements that open the door to big changes, to stories from our own clients on the power of leading by example, this episode is underpinned with practical advice. We’ll reveal how safe, respectful dialogue can turn potential conflict into a powerful learning experience. We unlock what it takes to build a workplace where everyone feels invested, valued, and able to thrive. Whether you’re a leader or a team player, there’s something here for you.
We want to thank the team that continues to support us in producing, editing and sharing our work. Jonah Smith for the heartfelt intro music you hear at the beginning of each podcast. We LOVE it. Hillary Rideout for writing descriptions, designing covers and helping us share our work on social media. Chad Penner for his superpower editing work to take our recordings from bumpy and glitchy to smooth and easy to listen to episodes for you to enjoy. From our hearts, we are so thankful for this team and the support they provide us.
Hello everyone, I'm Charles Feltman.
Speaker 2:And my name is Ila Edgar, and we're here for another episode of Trust on Purpose Charles. Where are we going today?
Speaker 1:Well, we're taking off from a particular starting place, which is a quote that you came across from one of our former guests on the show, Tom Garrity, and I will let you go ahead and read the quote and we can begin to dive in from there.
Speaker 2:I also actually just want to put another plug in for Tom's newsletter. If you have not subscribed yet, please subscribe. His website is psychsafetycom. Of all of the newsletters that I subscribe to, his is probably one of the top five that I actually read Really really good stuff in his one of the top five that I actually read Really really good stuff in his. So this came from a recent newsletter and it says a great workplace is worth working for. I'm going to say that again A great workplace is worth working for. So I know what my initial response was to that. But, charles, what does that get you thinking about or what does that provoke for you?
Speaker 1:So the worth working for part of it is what stands out to me the idea that great workplaces don't just happen, they aren't just somebody else's responsibility, the leader's responsibility, my boss's responsibility, they're collectively the responsibility of everyone who works there, and it's an inside job completely At least that's my initial thought about it. When I first heard you read that quote, that's what came up to me. How about you? Where did you go with that?
Speaker 2:I was similar and I went to create a workplace that is worth working for, and I'm thinking of one client that I work with right now, who they're regularly, you know, top 50 greatest companies to work for. So you know, there's the external accolades, and we've done all these things. And then what am I doing? So that inside job? What am I doing to actually make this place worth working for? What are my behaviors, my actions, how are those impacting this workplace to be a place that not just I want to work for, but those around me want to work for?
Speaker 1:You know, as I listen to you say that, one of the things that comes up for me is that, in order for people to think that way, they need to I think they need to have had an explicit conversation about what is a great workplace. What do we want this place to be like? What is it that's important to us, that would make it a great workplace, or that does currently make it a great workplace that we want to keep, maintain and keep yeah, like let's get out and weed the garden and maybe plant some new plants now and then, and that sort of thing. What is it that we're creating? How are we creating that?
Speaker 2:and I think also that the weeding of the garden analogy just like perked up in my brain. So what's no longer serving us, what do we want to start to let go of, because we need something different or we're at a different place in our culture and our organizational vision. So it's a what do we want? And actually what do we have that no longer serves us, that we need to let go of?
Speaker 1:Yes, and also, what are we doing that we want to keep? That's the third part of that. I think it's important.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and this is a terrible, like a terrible example. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and this is a terrible, like a terrible example. But think about lots of organizations before COVID and there were, you know, foosball tables, or there was a room where you could go and do your yoga. Or, you know, we provide lunch every Friday, and while those are lovely perks not saying there's anything wrong with them If there's cobwebs in the yoga room and all of the ping pong paddles are broken and nobody notices. And our world has also changed a lot since then. So I think this is now. The extra layer of interestingness is how do we do this in a remote workplace, which I think I'm going to pin for another conversation, because I think that in itself is like we could go down that rabbit hole right now.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, and that's actually a conversation that's happening in a whole lot of what makes this company or this organization a great place to work. Part of that conversation is happening not because it's an intentional conversation about what is making this place a great place to work, but rather, oh, our leadership wants us to return to the office full time and now we have to deal with this. I read what was it last week, I guess it was that Dell is yet another one of these companies that has issued an RTO, a return to office order mandate, and giving people like five days to do it, which provokes like what's going on here. I can't even begin to think about changing this whole routine and finding childcare and all these things that I was having to do in order to be able to do that in five days.
Speaker 2:So I've got care screaming out of my head going obviously, organization, you actually don't care about me and that there's way more to navigate than just I'm going to put on a nice outfit and go to work tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, there's this big break in the trust in the domain of care, for sure, yeah, and depending on what previous messaging people got if they got any about the return to work, if the leadership has been talking about this for six or eight months and said we're heading in that direction, be prepared. That's one thing If that then at least demonstrates some sincerity along the way and possibly care. But if it was just all of a sudden arbitrarily issued, that's a different story. Getting back to the question of the intentional conversation in the organization of what would make this, what will make this, what does make this a great place to work, it's not being held, obviously, in an organization like that.
Speaker 2:No, and part of me. You know we're talking about the conversation before the conversation. There's a client that I'm working with that's going through some really big change and I know that they're all flat out. There's a lot of actions that have to happen in order for this change to happen early in the new year, but even though especially the senior leadership team is like flat out, they have literally no time. Even with that, do you know what I hear in every single one of the conversations? It's care, and I think for me and my listening, that's not often something that happens at the same time. Where the organization is stretched, where there's a lot happening, I feel like care can be the thing that is let go or released or kind of pushed to the side more often than not.
Speaker 1:Yes, looking for a great place to work. Care is one of the things that's really important, I think, in people's minds and being able to trust that, your leadership, but that they care about you in the collective. They care about what's important to you as well as what's important to them and what's important to the shareholders, and that your immediate boss does. You can trust your immediate boss does care about your well-being, and that your peers care about the other people that work with you care about your well-being.
Speaker 1:So, if we were being intentional about what makes a great place to work, and designing that or continuing to design that, creating that as we go, care has got to be part of the conversation. What do we care about collectively and how do we show that? That's really a big piece of that is how do we show or demonstrate that we care, along with the other three trust domains, for sure. How do we demonstrate that we're sincere? How do we demonstrate reliability? Well, that one's pretty obvious. And how do we demonstrate competence and how do we deal with it when it's missing?
Speaker 2:I want to go back to the care topic for just a moment. It feels sometimes like the organization and I'm thinking much larger organizations where we don't know everybody because it's too large, that there's a care at a senior leadership level and that.
Speaker 2:here's all the things that we do for our lovely employees, for the lovely humans that work with us, but I feel that it's not always. How do you need us to show care, or what would resonate with you, and I go back to that. Yeah, but we have ping pong tables in every office building and we do, which, again, are lovely. If that's how your team, your employees, are saying, this is something that shows us you care, versus a top down, this is how we're going to show care.
Speaker 1:That's pretty common in all aspects of trust building and relating to each other in general. Anyway, our first thought is this is how I think it should be done, and so this is how I'm going to do it, right. And then maybe, if the person really does care, the next thought is, or somewhere down the line, the thought is oh, maybe I should ask, maybe I should get some feedback here on into the really meaningful and important conversations about what does this mean and how do we demonstrate it?
Speaker 2:What's been your experience with that?
Speaker 1:A few have, yes, and they're kind of what are they? Climate surveys and that sort of thing, which is very limited in terms of feedback that you actually get, even though you can ask some pretty specific questions which help, but it's still not really getting to the point. So you really have to, I think, have conversations with people. I recently worked with an organization that took feedback from climate surveys but then went to the next step and actually created kind of like the roundtable conversations to follow up and deepen the questions and the information from the surveys, because they recognized that survey information wasn't really enough to give anybody what they needed to operationalize what people wanted, to put it into practice, if you will. So, yes, there's somewhat few and far between, and when you come across one it's like, wow, this is amazing, which is not how it should be. It should be. Oh yeah, this is how it should be and it is rather than oh my gosh, these people really are on the ball Right.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. I'm like looking at my phone for a minute because there is a recent post by our lovely Jenny Gilbert, who I've made reference to before and talking about how to take some of those bigger chunks of data and then engage and create conversation that she attended where all of the information was big slide decks, way too much information on the slide decks, and then at the end of the town hall, everybody just got up and left.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Pretty cool and there was no like and now, what do we do, or what is it that you're expecting us to do, or what's going to be different because of this data sharing, whether it's employee engagement survey or whatever it is. So she had some really, really good prompts around. Now take this back to your team and have conversations about. You know, like some of the things you noticed were, or what's a key takeaway from this for you? What was most useful? What was surprising, what's becoming clearer to you now? What's still muddied and confusing? What commitments do we want to make? And so I think, really being able to take that larger piece of data and information, and then, how do we actually have real conversations with people in our teams?
Speaker 1:Yes, because that's where we get to this idea of great workplaces are worth working for, because there you have everybody working for it, working on it, working for it. The model of okay, here's what the survey said and all the data around that, and we'll just tell you about it doesn't put any responsibility on anybody really to do anything different, whereas if you now take them and ask them to have conversations and come up with recommendations and then not only here's the recommendation, but how do we implement this, how are we going to do whatever this is that we're recommending and who's going to do it, then people are beginning to get engaged in working for the great organization that they want to be part of.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, this is so interesting because I just thought about, not the same organization I mentioned earlier, but another one that is regularly in the top best places to work, and that data sharing is all. Look how great we are. Look at we won this award, and here's all the things that we do for you, and so, again, there's reason to celebrate. There's reason to celebrate. So I don't want to diminish the work that it takes to get there. A crappy organization doesn't get an award like that and further to your point earlier. So what are we doing? That we want to keep focus on what do we have already, that we want to either make sure we continue those behaviors, maybe we even want to amplify them because we're clear about what they are, so we can increase the volume button. So what happens if we do that more you know one, two, three, 5% more I think we've talked about this a little bit in the past is, if it's working to find out why.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is sort of the antithesis of if it ain't broke, don't fix it, let's just leave it alone. It seems to be working, okay, let's just not mess with it, because we might break it. Rather, let's understand it and maybe we can improve it. Which?
Speaker 2:is interesting that we're, of course, talking about psych safety.
Speaker 2:That's a lovely quote from Tom, and I've gotten a visual from Timothy Clark's model about that highest level of psychological safety, this challenger safety, and he's got a picture of the two sides of the brain and one side represents social friction and the other represents intellectual friction.
Speaker 2:So we don't want to increase social friction, right? That's where I'm digging in my heels and basically like I'm going to be stubborn because I think you're an asshole, so I don't even care what your idea is, I'm not going to listen to it. So intellectual friction, that's where maybe it is working great, but let's pull it apart, turn it upside down, twist it inside out for the sake of making things better, making small improvements, understanding what we can take away, which I think those sorts of conversations contribute to. This is a great place to work, because we can do that from a place of mutual care, respect that again, I'm not digging in my heels because I think you're an asshole, but I'm digging in my heels because I'm like here's what I really am. I believe in this and I know you believe differently. So let's figure it out, let's hash this out.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's fabulous. Of course, the place I went is the book that I'm reading, that I've mentioned to you last week when we had a conversation, which is Think Again, which is Adam Grant, adam. Which is Think Again which is-.
Speaker 1:Adam Grant. Adam Grant's one of his new books. He's probably written three or four books since he wrote that one, but it's new to me so I've been really enjoying reading it. But yeah, he talks about let's keep our minds open and flexible so that we can improve things along the way. That's one of the many things he's saying in this great book. But yeah, we can't improve something unless we're willing to challenge it.
Speaker 2:take it apart, see what makes it tick, so maybe we can make it tick better that's having me reflect on a recent conversation where I had made some assessments about this person and I'm in this moment like really appreciating that we have the level of trust that we do in our relationship that we could talk about. I took full accountability for letting the leash go too far. I gave too much freedom and then I was disappointed. But I was the one that gave the freedom and so the ability to have the crunchy, spicy conversations, the ability to say that's on me, I take accountability for that. Or, oh my gosh, I never thought of it from that perspective. I think these are on an individual, on a small collective scale. Oh, actually, I'm now pulling Susan David into my head. Her definition of culture is behaviors repeated at scale, and so if those types of conversations are happening more often than not, we're creating a great place worth working for, even though in the moment it's hard and uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so again, it's people being involved and engaged in the process of creating this workplace, in one conversation at a time, or maybe two or three conversations at a time, I don't know. But it doesn't happen overnight and it's not a steady state, it's dynamic. Any great workplace is going to be dynamic, which means that those conversations have to continue to happen. People have to continue to be engaged in order for that workplace, the greatness of that workplace, to perpetuate and even get better.
Speaker 2:Maybe and it's even a 1% better makes a big deal. It's a big deal. We don't have to have big sweeping improvements, we don't have to take it from this to something gigantic. I think it's the intentionality even if it's one or two or 3% more or better or whatever that metric is or that standard is that we want to focus on. It goes a long way, and I feel like sometimes people think, well, it doesn't really matter, right, me avoiding that conversation or me providing that feedback. It's just one conversation, right, it'll be fine, it doesn't really matter, but it actually does.
Speaker 1:It does yes.
Speaker 2:It actually does. Every single one of us does.
Speaker 1:Every single one of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I worked with a client a while back who was really good at that, really good at just taking the bull by the horns and having the tough conversations that came up when they came up, and he, as a result, the people who worked for him loved him, the people who work with him, his peers, really respected and appreciated him, his senior management some of them had some difficulty with that, but at the end of the day, even they appreciated the fact that he didn't let stuff just sort of slide under the table and fester.
Speaker 1:He wanted to address it, and so that was his way of working, for a great workplace is by addressing issues when they came up or shortly after, in that sometimes he wanted to take a day or two to think about what he wanted out of the conversation and how to pursue the conversation in a way that was going to be most effective. But once he'd done that, he wanted to have it, and it was great to watch, to sort of be an observer of him in that way, being that way and being someone who really cared enough to participate in making his organization a great place to work, and not only that, but other people who had, from what I understood, had traditionally not or had shied away from having certain conversations, realized that it's possible, it's okay, nobody died. Maybe I could do this too, so I think his example provoked some other people to do that as well.
Speaker 2:I love that and that's where my thinking was going around. He's modeling that this is possible, right? So maybe I could do this too On the receiving end of what might be a crunchy, spicy conversation. I have really appreciated those that have come to that to me and displayed behaviors around like we're in this together. There's something I'd like to share with you. Are you open to the conversation?
Speaker 2:And so what they did to prep? And so what they did to prep, preface and then make the actual conversation okay, so that my distrust guard dog wasn't like or my I say this funny, but it's actually not very funny. I might physically be sitting in front of you, but every fiber of my being has run out onto the street, is in my car and I'm 500 miles away. I look like I'm here, but I have run and I have run fast and I have run far, and so, again, someone that can invite me into a conversation and create an outcome and a shared learning and a oh, it was okay, I didn't die. I so appreciate being on the receiving end of that.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then you know again, modeling to other people. It's okay, we can do this, so great yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've had that same experience where the person who brought that to me part of it was that their own honest, authentic engagement in being there, right Recognizing that I was probably going to be uncomfortable, at least initially, and they wanted to take care of that in how they spoke and their actions, but also recognizing and acknowledging they might be a little bit uncomfortable and that that was okay. It was okay to be uncomfortable because they worked to create safety in the conversation and so I could feel safe to feel uncomfortable. So, having been on the receiving end of those kinds of conversations, it's really helped me be able to initiate those kinds of conversations as well.
Speaker 2:I feel like that might be a whole episode in itself is being with our own discomfort and then also being with someone else's discomfort, whether that's emotion or reactions or whatever, however that might show up, Because I think that is a barrier to many people having those conversations, because I don't know how Charles is going to react. The emotions are going to be big and actually I was speaking with someone this morning. She shared somebody didn't want to have a conversation with her because I knew you were going to overreact. Wow.
Speaker 1:When you say that, somewhere in the back of my mind, it trips something for me, a thought for me about how, in my own experience, I've been reluctant to have a conversation with certain people that have big emotional reactions, and part of that is that when I say something and then the other person has a big emotional reaction, I feel somehow like I've been responsible for what's going on for them, and it's taken a long time for me to get to the point where I have recognized that, no, I'm not responsible for their reaction. I'm responsible for what I say and the honesty, authenticity and kindness with which I say it. Whatever their reaction is is theirs, not mine. It's not about me. Yeah, and that's kept me from having certain conversations with certain people in my life for many years. Thank you for that, because I just sort of sorted that one out just now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have been in the past, in my earlier years, the girl with really big emotions, and especially when I was still learning how to take the feedback as something for me to work on. That it wasn't a criticism about me me to work on that, it wasn't a criticism about me, the person, me, the human and so I absolutely did not respond well or I'd be a big puddle of tears or faking with rage or frustration or whatever I was feeling. And I think definitely it caused some people to not talk to me about things because I didn't receive it well. And I totally understand that. Lots of learning for me If we go back to a great workplace is worth working for.
Speaker 2:How do we have these important conversations? And again, I'm going to just put a little like pin over here. We will talk about uncomfortable, being with and feeling uncomfortable. But I want to go back to. You had kind of identified three really good questions or a few questions that let's encourage our listeners. Whether you're part of a large organization or a small one, who are the people that you can start to have these discussions with? So what is it that makes your workplace great with? So what is it that makes your workplace great. What would make it even better? Maybe even what do we need to let go of? And allowing space and time for all the voices to be heard and acknowledged, whether or not those are the things that you decide to keep or let go or continue or to create, but really creating that shared space and that opportunity for everyone's voice to be heard. I think that those are powerful conversations.
Speaker 1:And I'm going to bring in here a great colleague of mine, lisa Marshall talks about not just what would be good, but what would delight us yeah, that's sort of framing it what would be a delightful place to work. Well, thank you, I think we can bring this particular conversation and episode to a close. Love those questions. Episode to a close. Love those questions Also really focusing on this idea that a great workplace is worth working for being not just somebody else working for it, but for all of the people involved working together for it, finding ways to make that happen or allow that to happen, yeah, and what a great way to build trust.
Speaker 2:Oh, you just summed it up right there, Beautiful Andy. Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 1:We'll talk again shortly about feeling safe enough to feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:And return to the office. I totally want to dive into that one. Yes, I can't wait to dive into that one.
Speaker 1:All right, all right, take care.
Speaker 2:Till next time.
Speaker 1:Bye-bye.
Speaker 2:On behalf of both Charles and myself, we want to say a big thank you to our producer and sound editor, chad Penner. Hillary Rideout of Inside Out Branding, who does our promotion, our amazing graphics and marketing for us, and our theme music was composed by Jonas Smith. If you have any questions or comments for us about the podcast, if you have a trust-related situation that you'd like us to take up in one of our episodes, we'd love to hear from you at trust, at trustonpurposeorg.
Speaker 1:And we'd also like to thank you, our listeners. Take care and keep building trust on purpose Until next time.
Speaker 2:Until next time.
