Trust on Purpose
Are you intentional about building, maintaining or repairing trust with the people in your life? Most of us aren’t, and sometimes important relationships suffer as a result. So much of what is right or amiss in those relationships ties back to trust, whether we realize it or not. We are dedicated to helping you become intentional about cultivating strong trust with everyone important in your life: the people and teams you lead and work with, and your family, friends and community, as well. In the Trust on Purpose podcast, we dive into everything that makes up trust, what supports and damages it. We unpack situations we commonly see with leaders, teams, organizations, and others we work with to show how trust can be strengthened, sustained, and repaired when broken. Listen in for conversations between two pros who care deeply about you being an intentional and masterful trust-builder in your life so you and your relationships flourish. We share pragmatic and actionable takeaways you can use immediately and deepen with practice. If you have questions or situations related to trust that you’d like us to talk about in a future episode, please email charles@insightcoaching.com or ila@bigchangeinc.com.
We'd like to thank the team that continues to support us in producing, editing and sharing our work. Jonah Smith for the heartfelt intro music that you hear at the beginning of each podcast. We LOVE it. Hillary Rideout for writing descriptions, designing covers and helping us share our work on social media. Chad Penner for the superpower editing work that he does to take our recordings from bumpy and glitchy to the smooth and easy to listen to episodes you are all enjoying. From our hearts, we are so thankful for this team and the support they provide us.
Trust on Purpose
Don't let tacit dissatisfaction damage trust
Send us a message - we'd love to hear from you
Have you ever felt that weighty silence in a team meeting when dissatisfaction hangs in the air but remains unspoken? That silence might be eroding trust beneath the surface of your relationships and organizations.
In this conversation, we explore how dissatisfaction manifests across different contexts - from personal relationships to large organizations, with special focus on team dynamics when remaining quiet creates invisible barriers.
We discuss how leaders can recognize the signs of team dissatisfaction before it undermines culture and introduce ideas for addressing it productively. The conversation also touches on our challenging relationship with self-disappointment and why we often avoid confronting uncomfortable emotions.
Join us as we unpack this universal experience that affects every relationship but rarely gets the attention it deserves and discover how properly addressing dissatisfaction can be the catalyst for rebuilding trust and connection in your most important relationships.
We want to thank the team that continues to support us in producing, editing and sharing our work. Jonah Smith for the heartfelt intro music you hear at the beginning of each podcast. We LOVE it. Hillary Rideout for writing descriptions, designing covers and helping us share our work on social media. Chad Penner for his superpower editing work to take our recordings from bumpy and glitchy to smooth and easy to listen to episodes for you to enjoy. From our hearts, we are so thankful for this team and the support they provide us.
Hello, I am Charles Feltman. At least that's what my driver's license tells me, and I generally trust it. So we're going to go with that today.
Speaker 2:Okay, hello, charles Feltman, it's nice to meet you. My name is Ila Edgar and we are here for another episode of Trust on Purpose. Do you want to set us up for this one, or am I diving in?
Speaker 1:Why don't you? Because it was your idea, so I'm going to make you do it.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, so I I think that I might get a bit spicy about this, because there's a number of things happening in my life right now that are pointing to this interesting conundrum of being dissatisfied. And so, as Charles and I were having the conversation, before the conversation, I was telling a story about how this is happening with an organization. But what does this also look like when perhaps it happens with systems, with processes, in a team and one-on-one relationships, and so this concept of dissatisfaction I'm adding a generous dose of absolute disappointment as well, but we maybe won't dive into that part. But what is this concept of dissatisfaction and what it does to relationships, what it does in teams, and I guess even diving into how can we take care of it, or do we want to? So I'm going to pause there, as I've set that up, what comes to mind first for you, charles?
Speaker 1:Yes. So this idea and, as we talked a little bit about before the conversation we're in right now, when I'm dissatisfied in a situation, I'm typically going to like turn it over in my mind and keep turning it over in my mind. It's kind of like resentment, but not quite. And so, thinking about it, when I have a dissatisfaction, I am dissatisfied about a situation, someone who provides us with a service. There's some situations in work where I might be dissatisfied with something that went down between me and another person I work with. I'm going to carry that around and I'm not going to trust that person going forward unless I can address it somehow with them. So one of the things that is part of this is, if it's a dissatisfaction with someone, another individual, there's a better chance that we'll be able to work it out because we can talk one-on-one with each other.
Speaker 1:Not always it doesn't always work that way. When it's a dissatisfaction with a large organization, that's, in effect, unreachable in some cases we can't. We can't work something out, but it's going to take a while because systems and processes have a way of self-perpetuating and they don't like to change. So I mean that's kind of you know, as I'm thinking about it. There are these different pieces. If I'm dissatisfied with something that you did for me or with me or something I can go and complain about to you, I can take my complaint to you and I can say Ila, you know, this didn't work out as well as I wanted it to, or I thought it would, or my expectations were, and we can have a conversation about mismatching expectations, maybe, or something along those lines, and come to a conclusion about it that we can both be satisfied with. So that's on the good end of things. But when it's an organization that doesn't actually respond to us, or like the help center that when you're doing a chat with them, you know that you're actually chatting with a bot.
Speaker 2:You know that you're like I don't, I don't norm. Well, I have stressful things in my life, of course, but the level of stress this particular situation is causing is off the charts. And so, if I tie this again just to you know your trust framework, I don't trust their competency, I absolutely don't trust their sincerity. Their reliability is down the toilet and they don't care like full stop, like they don't care. And I'm really quite helpless in voicing or escalating my dissatisfaction. And I know I'm one client in, you know tens of hundreds of thousands with this particular organization.
Speaker 2:But I think and again, we always want to talk about how this shows up with human relationships and inhuman interactions. I won't name the company but just say I will never use them again like I think about in teams where you're using the example earlier about, you're dissatisfied, there's dissatisfaction between you and I, and that this dissatisfaction. As a Canadian who is overly polite and absolutely despises conflict, I may not even have the voice to come to you with a responsible complaint. So let's say that I, because we, you and I, have high trust in our relationship and I know you care that I find the courage. I make some notes, I do some reflection, I really prepare for a conversation to responsibly complain. What if it's not received very well? Or what if, in that process, right, what if you don't receive it very well? What if we don't have that level of trust or you're just having a shitty day?
Speaker 1:and this is just another pile of shit that I'm already adding to your shitty day, and you're like are you kidding me, elap? Well then, so much for that. I want to go back to the responsible complaint, though just for a moment. Responsible complaint needs to be based on a commitment that had been made that we both agreed to. If there was a commitment that was made, then you have the standing to make a responsible complaint to me. We had agreed to this, charles, and you didn't hold up your end of the bargain. You didn't do, and maybe it was unclear communication around the agreement. We weren't really clear about what the agreement was.
Speaker 2:So that can happen.
Speaker 1:But at least at that point we can't really clear about what the agreement was. So that can happen, but at least at that point we can talk about it. Of course, if I don't listen to you, I don't really take the time to have a conversation with you, then of course you're going to go away even more dissatisfied.
Speaker 2:Actually sorry, I didn't plan this at all, but I'd probably be disappointed in you. Yeah Well, yeah Right, right Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would assume you would I would assume you would, yeah, or I just I'm so, I'm so curious about and I'm trying, I'm trying desperately to like speak and also use my mental Rolodex to come up with an example about where I've seen either members on a team where you can literally feel the mood, the energy of disappointment or dissatisfaction, where you know shoulders are hunched, you know your back isn't straight, your head might be down a little bit, and all of the they can be even micro events, little, tiny things left unspoken, and then it becomes a heaviness in the team. Things left unspoken, and then it becomes a heaviness in the team and there isn't an ability, whether they're Canadian or not, to actually bring this forward, to talk about it. I don't have the words, I don't know how to say this, and so we have individuals, teams, walking around with this feeling that they can't shake and they don't know how to resolve it, and that just, oh, that made my heart really sad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is a painful situation for everybody involved, and I think you and I have probably both worked with teams that were in that kind of place. Personally, my take on that is that that's where the leader needs to take the lead, when the rest of the team is not. The leader has to be capable of recognizing the symptoms, the signs of what you're just describing and then being able to somewhat skillfully intervene and bring people out of their shell, bring people out of their protected places.
Speaker 2:That takes.
Speaker 1:Sorry, go ahead. I was going to say sometimes just a team member has that capacity, but for the most part I think it's the leader's job and it does take some emotional intelligence for sure, some real capacity to detect what's going on in the room.
Speaker 2:Well, and so let's throw this plot twist in what if the leader is disappointed in their team or dissatisfied, right? So like, let's just make this plot even juicier I know, just really, really really, and so maybe let's shift the situation a little bit. So the team thinks that they're doing all right and the leader's unspoken feedback is right, that the leader is actually dissatisfied with the team and hasn't told them, either collectively or individually.
Speaker 1:And so what that the damage? The leader needs to take the lead if they can, if they're capable. If they're not capable, it's going to just persist unless and until one of the team members is capable and willing to speak up and say there's something off here, which is kind of rare. Team members don't usually do that, but sometimes and I would certainly encourage and I've actually worked as a coach with individual team members who have been in a very similar situation to that and the coaching was around helping them develop the emotional capacity and even the body of someone who could speak up and even though they weren't exactly sure what was going on, name that something was going on that wasn't working for them and it wasn't working for them Mm-hmm, and that takes incredible courage, vulnerability and at least some level of trust in the team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Actually a fairly high level of trust in the team. Really, yes, yes, but if there's that kind of trust in the team, they're likely not bumping into these kinds of issues, and so maybe, maybe not right, but so trust in some members of the team, so I know I have some allies if I'm going to do this. Yes.
Speaker 1:Who are going to stand by me when I stick my neck out like this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so I love that you're adding. You know, the leader can really take an important position here and support the team. So, whether it's dissatisfaction from the leader to the team, or even sensing that there's dissatisfaction from the leader to the team, or even sensing that there's dissatisfaction, and I would even say declare dissatisfaction, it's okay to do that. You know, here's what we thought this project. Or you know how this was going to roll out. Here's how it actually did. I will say that I, you know I'm disappointed and here's why I will say that I, you know I'm disappointed and here's why, right, that I had high hopes for this. Or you know, I see how the team was stretched really thin and there's no way we could have produced what I, what I expected, and right. So, making it not about another person, but it's still okay to declare dissatisfaction.
Speaker 2:Not everything goes well, oh my gosh. I'm thinking about that, amy Edmondson's video about failure, and there's a piece in there that Julia Child is live on national TV and she flips an omelet and misses the pan and she's like it's just an omelet, right, and so. So I think there's also this energy or like disappointment is bad or dissatisfaction is bad, and actually it's not at all. It's pointing to what might need taking care of, what might need to be done differently next time, or you know a multitude of things, and so even just declaring it can open a conversation.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you you've declared your dissatisfaction with this company that you've talked about dealing with. Has that changed anything for you, having declared your dissatisfaction?
Speaker 2:Ooh, has that changed? Yes, actually, because I felt like I was alone in it and I also kind of had a story going on in my head that it was my fault, and so, in sharing the data points of the story and absolutely taking accountability for my part in where we are which there is a part, I have a part to play but I really now feel like I'm not alone, this isn't an anomaly, and that now you know, I have a bit of a network of support to help navigate it because it's still not resolved. So declaring it did help, it did help Good.
Speaker 1:And so, taking that back to the team scenario, where we were just talking about whether it's a team member declaring that there's something off here, whether it's a team member declaring that there's something off here, I'm feeling like we've just busted our butts for the last three months to get this product out. It didn't work really well, and I'm feeling a lot of dissatisfaction from not only people outside of the team, but also you, our leader, people outside of the team, but also you, our leader. I want to just presence that, knowing that there's at least a couple other people in the room, who would back that up is powerful.
Speaker 1:Or the leader saying, hey, I am dissatisfied, but let's use that, let's work on that, let's take this opportunity to figure out what happened and figure out how we can do better.
Speaker 2:Next, time so important, whether it's the leader that voices that or that it's team members that voice that to reward that vulnerability, right, that must have been really tricky to name that. Or I'm really glad you voiced that, because I feel that too, or you know, yeah, we really need to put that on the table, and I'm glad that you've brought that into the conversation.
Speaker 1:And I'm glad that you've brought that into the conversation, and so I want to actually take this further back in time for the again.
Speaker 1:For the team leader, primarily because I think this is part of the team leader's job is to put that whole process on the table early in. Working with a team, and then remind them of it periodically is part of being a productive team, is to be able to talk with each other about stuff that's sometimes hard to talk about, including trust. When there's dissatisfaction, when things don't go right, it's great. Let's celebrate when things do go right 100%. When things don't go right, let's also take a look. Let's not be afraid to dive into that. Let's not be afraid to bring it forward and take a look at it. So that gets normalized to a certain degree, with the leader saying it and then, of course, obviously following through when somebody says something or brings it up or the situation is such that it's that leader's role to bring it forward and say, hey, we didn't meet the commitment that we made or the standard that we were being held to on this, and let's figure this out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or we realize now in hindsight that we actually weren't really clear.
Speaker 2:Or here's some things that now that we look at them, you know we're probably too ambitious, Right.
Speaker 2:And so being able to name all of these things because there will be multiple aspects in how you look at a project and I think of my husband's, a project manager, and he would often talk about the lessons learned right after the project wraps the lessons learned, conversation and meeting and I've been part of those not with him, but I've been part of those as well and how it's almost like a tick the box, like, well, this is just something we have to do when the project is done. Right, we have to. You know, here's what went well. Yay, here's the lesson we learned. You know, put it in the, put it in the notes and close the project and we never look at it again. But how much value comes from being able to name and talk about all of the parts of the, the project, or the output or the goal or whatever it is, how valuable it is to talk about even the things that are not super shiny or sparkly, right, Like frustration or disappointment or all sorts of things.
Speaker 1:Yes, people feel like they can have those conversations and survive them. Nobody likes it. Well, maybe there are people who like it. I'll acknowledge there may be people who like those kinds of conversations, but for the most part most people don't. But hey, we had it, we survived it, we're better for it, and I think that builds goes a long way to build trust in a team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do too. So now I mean, I think this is a great topic, of course, but as we dive in, I'm like oh, there's another layer I want to add. And Charles is oh my gosh, now what are you going to do? What plot twist is coming? What came to mind for me during this conversation is what happens when I actually am dissatisfied with my own output or my own behaviors.
Speaker 1:What does. I'm curious now what does happen for you when you're dissatisfied with your own something that you've done?
Speaker 2:Well, my immediate is that I often busy myself with something else so that I don't have to feel it or acknowledge it, but then it festers. Then it's like no, no, no, no. And it's a three o'clock, itty bitty. Or three o'clock in the morning, itty bitty, shitty comedies. Like no, no, no, no, we're not going to let you let this one rest.
Speaker 2:It can be incredibly uncomfortable to acknowledge dissatisfaction with self, not as a person, but in our right, our own output or our behaviors or something we've done or said. It can be uncomfortable to feel that and then acknowledge it. And then what do we want to do about it? In recent months, I think a learning for me has been that when I spread myself too thin, when I overcommit myself, then I can be disappointed with the output because I haven't given myself enough time and space. And by intentionally leaving appropriate time and space and not tetracing my schedule anymore, then I can be really clear on what I'm committed to and also be really clear on what are my standards or conditions of satisfaction. And as any human, I can also bump into oh, I've been working on this, I'm feeling disappointment and I actually realize it's because I didn't create any clear standards or expectations. I just jumped into doing.
Speaker 1:So what you kind of I think what you're pointing to there is that you kind of ran a you, you started doing what you habitually have done. You've, you know the old, if you always do what you've always done, you always get what you've always gotten. And it's not what I'm hearing is that's an example of that that you just automatically start behaving and I do this too all the time. I'll. Okay, I'm going to change this, you know.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of good work out there on how to change a habit, but even that's like hard right. So I had some issue with my right knee and right leg and I've been getting physical therapy, which requires, you know, the physical therapist says here are these stretches and here are these exercises you can do. That will change that. I do all of them, yay. Second day I do some of them, but I don't quite get through all of them.
Speaker 1:Okay, the third day, it's just back to not doing any of them, just doing what I normally do during a day, and then I'm really dissatisfied with the result change my fundamental, habitual behavior on a day-to-day basis, which is hard. It's not something that comes easy and the reward for that is really big, you know, not having the pain in my knee and leg is going to it's. It's of real value to me, so I have to kind of work with that. But yeah, when we we decide, okay, look at this, this is going to be so much better if I do it this way and then stand up to do it and quickly discover that our habits take over and we go on autopilot. It's not easy to change that.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing about your example, because even something that has huge value to you, something that will reduce or remove pain, suffering, discomfort, even that is difficult to stick with yeah.
Speaker 1:Well for me. Maybe other people might find it easier, but for me it's been. I mean, I've finally gotten back to doing all of the things in the last couple of days, but it's like a battle to get there and who knows. I mean I'm on day three here now and I haven't done any of them yet today. But I've been busy, right, I've been busy Lots of stuff going on.
Speaker 2:Is there a declaration or a commitment that you want to make right now, and then I can help hold you accountable.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, no, actually, quite seriously, I do want and need to do these exercises and these stretches, because it will be of great benefit, not just in the pain going away, but in other areas of my life that we're having being able to move in different ways will be really beneficial. So changing my habit, changing my habit to one in which I do this stuff on a daily basis is going to be important.
Speaker 2:I think all of our conversation is pointing me back to how it's really easy for us lovely humans to avoid what's uncomfortable. It's an organization that I am incredibly dissatisfied and disappointed with, even hesitating in my approach, what I was willing to do and not do because, god forbid, I rock the boat or, you know, cause conflict in any way. I don't want to be labeled as an asshole. That's not something I would like to be called. Be labeled as an asshole, that's not something I would like to be called, and it's funny that that's what I think that I will be labeled as if I complain yes, isn't that interesting, isn't that interesting?
Speaker 2:So, whether it's the discomfort around doing that, or, as we've talked about with systems, with processes right, I see, the system is actually not. Or this process is not delivering, we're dissatisfied with the output, but are we willing to do anything to actually change it? You know, oh, it's a big mothership, we can't change anything. Well, but could we try, and even that would be uncomfortable, right? Or whether we're talking about dissatisfaction that can live in a team or in an individual, or a leader, about their team, like it's. This is inviting us, another way to invite us into. Can we sit with something uncomfortable and then decide if we're going to do something about it or not.
Speaker 1:Or do we just bounce out of the discomfort, busy ourselves with other things and don't actually take care of what might be pointing the dissatisfaction might be pointing us to? I think that, excuse me, still a holdover from that cough. Yeah, I think that's actually to a great degree. That's the heart of it is, and it kind of gets back to self-trust. Can we trust ourselves to do what we know we need to do or we know will help us get to the point we want to get to, so that we're no longer living with dissatisfaction and disappointment end up changing the situation externally? I think that we come to trust ourselves more if we're actually willing to try to do something to change the situation rather than just accepting it in most cases, just accepting it and saying, okay, well, there's nothing to be done here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think even acknowledging when we feel dissatisfied is a really great first step, even if we do nothing about it, but acknowledging, like, I think, this feeling is telling me that I'm dissatisfied.
Speaker 1:And you know what? Yes, thank you, because there was something that came up as I listened, overheard myself talking. I'm thinking, wait a minute, I'm dissatisfied with what I'm saying Because there's another part of me that is, you know, only when I accept what is can I really do anything. But totally accept what is, this is what is Okay, this situation is as it is. Then I can go from there towards making some kind of change in it. So yeah, declaring it, declaring that I'm dissatisfied, and accepting that I'm dissatisfied that's part of what's part of the situation and accepting that the whatever it is that I'm finding dissatisfying exists and and not trying to make it go away in my mind or, you know, magically change it I actually have to accept it. No, it is. That's what's happening.
Speaker 2:And now.
Speaker 1:what can I do, if anything?
Speaker 2:Yeah and I. This is helpful because I go from acceptance with this ridiculous situation that it is what it is and really I've done everything that I possibly can, and then I dive back into some other really big emotions and then I'm like no, no, no, just be in acceptance. And so I want to just clarify our definition of acceptance that we've used in the past that it doesn't mean that I like it, that I condone it, that I chose it, that I wanted it. It means I'm no longer putting energy to resisting Exactly yeah, right. So I don't like this situation. There's a number of situations in my life I don't like right now and it doesn't serve me or anyone around me to put energy into resisting those. So where would I rather put my energy? Well, in the relationships that matter to me and the work that I do that I love, and you know, having time with Charles to record another episode of Trust on Purpose. That's where I want to focus my energy. So acceptance doesn't allows us to choose and be more intentional.
Speaker 1:It's different than resignation.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But I like the way you put it, that I'm not holding the world responsible for my dissatisfaction. I'm dissatisfied and I accept that. That's what's going on right now. That's the situation. Where do I want to put my energy? Maybe I thought I'd put my energy into trying to resolve this situation. Maybe I want to just put my energy into other situation. Other people Excuse me. Maybe I want to put my energy into other people, connecting with people that I love and care about, doing stuff that brings joy to me. Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we've. Can you, sorry, hang on one little tiny request? Can you just talk about what resignation means?
Speaker 1:Well, and resignation is not a bad thing. I want to say that up front. But resignation is an emotion in which the story that goes with resignation is there's nothing, nothing's going to change, nothing's going to be different and there's nothing that I can do about it going to be different and there's nothing that I can do about it. And um, the resignation of emotion, the emotion of resignation, um, is kind of an internal collapse. We we sort of draw in and go.
Speaker 1:You know, okay that, like you described it earlier, that kind of shoulders down, chest concave, eyes down, and just in saying that and doing it you know our listeners can't see me, but, boy, that was affecting me as I was doing it. So that emotion of resignation takes us to a place where we well, actually disappointment is kind of part of resignation, which often is the foundation or the source headwaters of cynicism. We don't want to be disappointed again. We don't want to fall into resignation anymore. We hate that. So let's sabotage anything around us that might possibly take us to a place where we could yet again be disappointed.
Speaker 2:Which leads us back to, I think, an ongoing invitation in our human lived experience is that we find ways to sit with what is uncomfortable, whether it's temporary or longer term, because the cost of pushing it away, or, again, the listeners can't see me, but I'm like shoving things down into my body, which I did for many years, tetris-ing things like I'm not going to deal with it, I'm not going to like, I'm not going to look at that, we're going to pack it in a box, put a chain lock around it. And the cost of that to me personally physically, mentally, emotionally but also the cost to the relationships around us, yeah, and that every single emotion is important and has a purpose.
Speaker 1:Yes, even the ones that are wildly uncomfortable, yeah, and I would say that resignation is also a place where we can rest.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:Thank you or do whatever we're going to do in our acceptance. So I think we probably at the end of our conversation today about dissatisfaction and disappointment and counter. What's the word I'm looking for? What is it? What's the word for when you, when you, oh boy, I'm dissatisfied with my brain.
Speaker 2:I'm trying really hard to deep, look deep in your brain and help you pull this word out.
Speaker 1:You don't want to do that, you do not want to look deep in my brain. That would be a big mistake. Would be a big mistake? No. The counter to the.
Speaker 1:Opposite, not necessarily opposite, but what can make it, what can balance it out? Anyway, I think that we're going to have to ask our editor to take this out of this little out of the recording and just bring it to an end. Thank you, hila. This has been a good conversation. I really appreciate it. I'm getting some value out of it myself, so I look forward to our this conversation and for now, to all of our listeners have a wonderful week, month, whatever.
Speaker 2:Year.
Speaker 1:Year, your days are filled with what they're filled with, and you find ways to accept and appreciate all of it.
Speaker 2:Lovely, thank you.
