Trust on Purpose

Are you sabotaging your team by moving too fast?

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What happens when you choose long-term trust over short-term speed? Psychologist Susan David's powerful question launches us into a revealing exploration of how trust-building decisions fundamentally transform outcomes.

This episode contrasts two dramatically different approaches to organizational change. On one hand, a team that prioritizes rapid implementation, making unilateral decisions and forcing solutions on users can lead to active sabotage and project failure. Another that invests time upfront in building trust-filled relationships and understanding, creating psychological safety can enjoy dramatic success.

The surprising insight: Prioritizing trust building up front doesn't necessarily extend timelines. Strong trust foundations allow teams to move quickly when it matters most, while preventing the costly rework cycles that sink speed-focused strategies.

Listen to discover how trust conversations can transform your most important connections.


We want to thank the team that continues to support us in producing, editing and sharing our work. Jonah Smith for the heartfelt intro music you hear at the beginning of each podcast. We LOVE it. Hillary Rideout for writing descriptions, designing covers and helping us share our work on social media. Chad Penner for his superpower editing work to take our recordings from bumpy and glitchy to smooth and easy to listen to episodes for you to enjoy. From our hearts, we are so thankful for this team and the support they provide us.

SPEAKER_00:

My name is Charles Feldman.

SPEAKER_01:

And my name is Ela Edgar. And we're here for another episode of Trust on Purpose. And Charles, do you want to set this one up or do you want me to set this one up?

SPEAKER_00:

Why don't you set this one up? That'd be going to be fun.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Of the many newsletters that I have signed up to, there are a few that I pay a particular attention to. And one of them is Susan David and her work around emotional agility. So a few weeks ago, there was an email that came out, and there was a couple of statements and one bullet in particular that really piqued my interest, so much so that I forwarded it to Charles to say, I think we should talk about this. And so here's the statement. Consider a decision where you prioritized long-term trust over short-term speed. I'm going to say that one more time. Consider a decision where you prioritized long-term trust over short-term speed. And so, of course, we had the conversation before the conversation. And I think this is going to be a really interesting topic. So, Charles, where where do you want to start after hearing that statement?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And we we talked about it before, the conversation before the conversation. And now listening to it, one of the things that comes up for me is if we think about trust as being willing to risk making something I value vulnerable to another person's actions. So a decision to prioritize trust is a decision to make something vulnerable. And in this case, it sounds like what I'm making vulnerable is I'm choosing to do something that's going to take maybe a little bit longer because I'm actually going to build trust with one or more people to get it done or to along the way, as opposed to trying to get something done quickly and the heck with everybody else. So I'm actually making a choice to make something I value vulnerable, which is maybe getting something done quickly, which may be important to me and whatever my role is.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, we didn't talk about this before, but what is coming up for me too in this moment is it doesn't mean this doesn't mean that we can't also get things done quickly, because sometimes that's necessary. And that actually having relationships where we have built long-term trust can catapult us into getting things done quickly and efficiently and speedily, and all of those, you know, quick words. But that it takes, it takes the time and the intentional, you know, the statement says a decision where you prioritize. So we talk about trust being a choice. And so where have we intentionally decided that we're going to invest in a relationship in order to build this long-term trust? There's a couple of angles I think we could go here.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. The whole notion of prioritizing trust, deciding to prioritize trust, I think is something that often people don't think about. They're just thinking, okay, what how can I get this done as quickly as possible with the the least bugs or problems or issues or whatever? Um and the thought of, okay, maybe along the way, I may need to build some trust or I want to build trust and doesn't factor in. And so what happens is people take action that's focused only on prioritizing speed or prioritizing whatever else that there might be their prioritizing. Reminds me again of something I've said before, um, a lesson that I well didn't really learn at the time, but uh uh heard anyway and have taken on since then, which is that in every interaction we have with someone, we can try to accomplish two things. We can further the task towards whatever end we're aiming with that. And at the same time, we can continue to build and strengthen the relationship and trust. And in those reaction in interactions, sometimes the priority is a little more on getting the task done, sometimes, but there's still a little bit about the relationship building and trust building. Sometimes it's more about trust building and then the task kind of recedes a little bit. And I think often when something new is started, some new process or program or task or whatever, choosing to build trust first, focus more on trust at the beginning. Not all on trust, but more on trust, the beginning is important. That's what gets us to the point where you we have trust that now can allow us at the back end to really speed things up.

SPEAKER_01:

I want to say this with so much love and compassion for the many humans on the face of this planet and reflecting on the many organizations that I've peeked into, the teams that I've worked with, and I think you can uh say similarly that moving the relationship forward is an afterthought because so many organizations are like deliver, deliver, deliver, produce, produce, produce, meet this goal, meet this outcome, or there's consequences. And so I feel like oh, it saddens my heart to say it so much. I feel like the relationship part and that trust building part is left on the side of the road. And maybe a few people, because we know that we're you and I are not the only ones that care deeply about trust. But I feel that there's just so many that that's not it's not where they start, right? It's about how how do I get to this goal or outcome or the whatever it is that I need to produce. That's the focus.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think there's some I want to just add in here, um, thinking about um Aaron Meyer's work on culture, that there are cultures where there's a priority placed on relationship and building, and you know, that's how people interact with each other is in relationship. So I think that what you're talking about, what you're referring to, and what I see, of course, from in much of my work also is North American and to some degree Western European culture. But even among Western European cultures, um, there's there's some difference there. So I think really what in this case we were talking to is you know North American business culture. Um and you're right, there is this priority around getting it done, getting the work done. Now, yesterday, we figured to stop.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yeah, yeah, not yesterday, two weeks ago. Why is it why isn't it done? What's the problem? Yeah.

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And so it does get trust building, part of it does get lost. And that's why I think that the people who do think about that. So let me just tell tell a story. We talked a little bit about this, but tell us one story where I I worked with a client some years ago who was head of a department. Um, and their company was undergoing, they were, they were bringing a new software application, company-wide sort of thing, on board. The IT department was in charge of that. IT department in this case had chosen, for the sake of speed, to um basically do everything themselves, make all the decisions about how this new uh software would be rolled out and how it how it was going to be used by the end users. My client spent a lot of time complaining to me about how it was really affecting his, the people in his department and how they were able to do their work. And they were fast losing not only trust, but patience with the impatient people over there in the IT department to the point where they were actually some of the people, the end users, were beginning to kind of quietly sabotage. So it had gone from the point where, you know, things were just bad because the new software was not being implemented well, it was be kind of rammed down their throats. But at that point, at some point, they said it's just, you know, okay, this doesn't work, and I'm not going to try and fix it. I'm not going to try and do my part to do anything better because they had lost complete trust. The relationships that might have been there weren't. To the point where, after some period of time, uh-huh, this was affecting not just my client's department, but most departments in the company. The person who was in charge of rolling out this new change software was shown the door because it just wasn't, it wasn't working for the company. And they went back to the what they had been doing before, because at least everybody knew how to do that and use it. It wasn't efficient, and that's why they were making the change in the first place, but it was a lot more efficient than what was happening with the change. So there's an example of somebody choosing to prioritize speed over trust.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. As you're sharing that story, I feel like how many change projects focus on the deliverables and the outcome. And we know this. You talk to any change management consultant or expert that we forget about the human side, right? Or it's given a lower priority. And yet you also have a story where that wasn't left on the wayside. And so what happened as a result.

SPEAKER_00:

In that situation, the team that was implementing the new uh the new system in this case, it was a software system mostly, but there was some hardware involved with it. But the person who was in charge of the team that was implementing it, the IT team, chose specifically to go slow at first to build relationships with the end users who were going to be using the product. And Perkine actually went out as they began to implement. Well, first, even before they began to implement, they asked all kinds of questions about what those users needed, what they were doing, what they didn't need, proposed uh what-if scenarios. Um, then they came back and fed that into their plan for implementing this. And they began to implement slowly. And as they did, again, the team went out and sat with the end users and didn't actually talk with them a whole lot at that point, but observed what they were doing, how it was working, where it was working well, and where it was failing from the end user's perspective. They could just see what they were doing. Brought that back, fine-tuned, changed. Um, so it was a very slow, intentional rollout that built a lot of trust with the end user. So when the end users had problems, they didn't stonewall or sabotage or anything. They called up and said, Hey, I've got a problem. Can you help? Which is, of course, what you want. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So this change was, you know, took a while, but the net result was that it actually took. And what the company ended up with was a new system that worked much better than the old system and that people were comfortably using. And along with that, there was a strong relationship between the IT department, particularly this team, but the IT department in general, and the people in the rest of the company who kind of saw them as, at the end of the day, as real heroes, even though it took longer. The top leadership of the company was annoyed, you know, was upset that it was taking so long. But in the end, it was worth it because trust had been built at that level between the team that was implementing and the people who were going to be using this, which helped in many, many ways as they tried to do other things going forward.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think I've heard so many stories about failed software implementations because even after the implementation, the users are back to the old system or looking for workarounds because they haven't been seen as human in the change.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so I'm up that hold up that heart again a little bit. Let's let's make sure that people get it there. Because now we've got the visual.

SPEAKER_01:

Now we have the visual. Now we have the visual. Um and so we think about, and I can't tell a particular story, but I'm sure we've got many examples to draw from where we've worked with clients or seen a team that has really struggled because at the end of the day, the implementation has failed because the bulk of the users are not adapting and are not adopting the new technology. You know, you've done this to me. I'm, you know, I'm not gonna buy in. I'm you can't make me do this, all of those words, energies, behaviors. And so what happens then instead when we do put intention and I'm choosing to build relationship and trust along the way, not just force this on you. I'm not shoving this down your throat. We're in this together. Oh, you've got a problem. Oh my gosh, we didn't think of that. Let me watch how you do that so I can help mitigate how we can fix that.

unknown:

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. That's the kind of process that tends to nine times out of ten end up it's a little slower, but it ends up with what people really need. It solves the problem so that people can do the work more efficiently and effectively than they could with the old system. Yeah. And again, it's that choice to take the time, make the effort, to pay attention to both the task, which is important, and the relationship and trust side of the relationship.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think as we're talking about this, I also want to be very explicit that this doesn't necessarily add enormous amounts of time to the project or the deliverable. Right. It so yes, it does take more time, but we're not, you know, it doesn't become a six-month project when it could have been a three-month project. Right. It does take intention along the way and that relationship building. Um, but it doesn't have to mean an ordinate amount of time.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean I'm thinking back to when we first started our podcast, we were, you know, we knew each other a little bit, but we weren't exactly we didn't know each other a whole lot. We didn't know a lot about each other. We didn't, you know. So our first podcast, we kind of jumped into it, but at the same time, along the way, we spent a lot of time before each podcast, we spent a lot of time talking. Yeah. And not just about the topic of the podcast, but just getting to know each other. Um and we still do that. But um, it's now because we do know each other and we want to, you know, we're kind of and we stay close to each other's lives. But yeah, there was that time when we first started that we spent a lot of time just getting to know each other and learning who each other was and developing trust. So that when I said something really stupid, I could trust. You could cover me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Or when we bump into technology glitches, you're like, it's okay, Hila. We're gonna we're gonna figure it out. You can you can show me some grace and compassion. Yeah. Gosh, gosh, we love our technology bumps. Yeah. I I also wanted to tell a little story about something that happened last week. And I think it really highlights, again, this choosing the long-term trust over a short-term deliverable. And so I had the opportunity of um sitting on a panel and listening to um students from Royal Rhodes University deliver their capstone projects. And there was one student in particular, she had an actual product that she was putting out to market. And as she was going through her DAC and her presentation, I was really struck by how she had really tried and tested a number of different iterations of her product and what she did as a result. So she had this idea, she sourced all of her um her materials and she put a product out to a test market. And by listening, well, a asking for feedback and listening to the feedback, she realized that that particular way that she had launched the product was a fail. And so she didn't give up. She tried again. And in that feedback, she said, Oh, I think this is the iteration that I want to do instead. And so she created a little bit different of a product, went out to a test audience again. And I I want to go back to how bold and courageous it is to ask for feedback and then to actually listen. So she listened, asked for that feedback, listened, and realized that this was also a fail. Now, two failed products can be, I think, discouraging and also look at the richness of what she's learning about what potential clients want. And so taking the time to slow down and do that, she's now at a place where she's really finalized or gotten clear on what is actually going to work for the audience that she's gearing her product to. And so she could have just created a product and gone out to market. And I'm sure she would have had some success. I think this way she's building not only loyalty, but such deep trust because her clients and potential clients really feel that she cares and she listens. And I was really struck by that and really proud of her for taking that extra time in developing her product. And I think it's going to have an incredible impact on her business when she actually launches.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. There's another good example of taking choosing to prioritize trust, building trust over short-term advantage. Quick turnaround.

SPEAKER_01:

And being committed to I know the answer, I know what's right, I've I've figured this out. And so now I'm going to push it out into the world. Versus, I have an idea, I think it's pretty cool, I think there's legs to it, and I'm going to solicit that feedback and that input and really listen to it before I run out the door launching some kind of product or service.

SPEAKER_00:

Which of course makes me think about teams that I've worked with, and they're, you know, sitting around thinking about, for example, a new product. And there's the teams that they're all about, hey, uh, let's get this out the door. What do we need to do to just get it out the door? And there are teams that sit around and say, how's this product going to be used? What's what do we see? You know, actually soliciting from each other ideas, thoughts, and listening, again, listening in the context of the trust that the team members have in each other, particularly in care and the psychological safety, that the strong trust in each other's care builds. So that when you know one team member says, you know, I think there's a problem here, and I think we really need to look at it, even though that's going to slow the whole thing down, um, they're willing to speak that and it is listened to. I mean, maybe they choose to move on, but they choose to move on after reflecting. Or maybe they choose to stop and uh take a second or third look at this situation. But in any case, having the trust, having built the trust, that team, so that each person can play their role and say what they think is how teams end up going much faster. And which accounts for, I think, a great deal of what you see in successful teams that get things done seemingly more quickly than other teams because what they come out with is built on what's built on the combined input of everybody on the team. So they use everybody's resources.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Not just one or two people.

SPEAKER_01:

You're reminding me also of the time to actually figure out what is the problem that we're trying to solve. And that also takes time and that trust in the relationship. And so it's easy to, oh, here's the problem and here's the solution. Let's go. We've got this figured out. We don't, we don't need to do all that focus group stuff. You know, we don't, we don't need to have conversations with stakeholders. We know what it is, let's fix it. And actually, on top of uncovering the actual problem that we're trying to solve, we're also building trust because we're taking the time to listen. We're taking the time to ask, to solicit that input, not just from, you know, our key people, but from people maybe we don't hear their voices often.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, and as you were talking, I was also thinking about um the International Coach Federation has its core competencies. And one of the core competencies is trust building and setting the, you know, setting the foundation for the relationship. And that comes first and early on, but it continues throughout the whole coaching relationship or engagement that you have with the other person. If as coaches, we don't take time to build trust and continue to build it and maintain it, nothing happens. No coaching actually happens. Whereas if we do take the time to build trust, then our clients are willing to go deep. Not for our sakes, although they feel comfortable with us, they're doing it for their own sake. But if they don't feel comfortable with us, they won't do that for their own sake. And so the whole coaching enterprise falls apart. So again, taking that time, choosing to spend time up front, building trust as a coach, with an individual, with a team, as a leader with their team members and their peers and the senior leadership and whoever else isn't important to build trust with.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's reminding me, and of course, I'm I don't have it at my fingertips where it's um a quote that you use in your book about trust being in the eye of the beholder.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

So so we we could maybe you can help me not butcher it. You know, we can think that we are trustworthy and that our behaviors are building trust, but we really need to ask and solicit that feedback. Or, you know, this is a new relationship and building trust is really important to me. What does that look like for you? How can I make sure that I'm behaving in a way that I'm building trust versus damaging it? And what might I do that would cause a trust breakdown or a trust wiggle? And so making sure that I'm also clear on what that might be so that I can avoid that behavior.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

This group of entrepreneurs I was with last week, it was quite interesting because I love hearing their feedback after they learn about your framework. And one in particular is like, I realize how unreliable I am. And that, you know, taking on and adding to my capacity actually causes reliability breakdowns because there's no way I can deliver on all of these things. And so, you know, one thing is I'm going to be more accountable and more committed to what I say yes to. And so I think there's an invitation here to our lovely listeners is how do you want to be more intentional about building trust in the relationships with your peers, your coworkers, and anyone in your life that's important to you? How do you want to add and add the time and be intentional about building that stronger trust?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it is a choice.

SPEAKER_01:

And also, what am I choosing not to do? Because I'm like, there's one relationship that's like just popped in my head. It was like, hey, Hila, poke. Remember this one, where I think it's time for a check-in conversation. Like, how are we doing in our relationship? We haven't had an intentional trust conversation for a while. And I, yeah, in this particular relationship, it's not you. It sounds like I'm talking to you, but it's I'm not talking to you. But yeah, I I think this conversation is reminding me that there's some relationships that I need to pay attention to and just do a check-in because I care. Because I don't, I don't want to let that trust just you know slide by the wayside. That it matters to me, that it remains strong and something that we can keep building on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Which kind of brings us back to uh Susan David's statement choosing to prior well, do you want to read it again just because Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Consider a decision where you prioritized long-term trust over short-term speed.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And back to this notion that in the beginning of a of a relationship and all the way through the relationship, there are those choice points again and again and again to prioritize trust. Which doesn't mean we have to give up speed. And in fact, the stronger the trust, the faster we can go. And Covey, Stephen Covey's book and the title of it says a lot and the speed of trust. Uh trust allows us to go fast when we have it, when it's strong. And we still have to keep checking in. We have to maintain it. It's not it it doesn't just maintain itself.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. It's not a check one and done. It's a a regular check-in and and and a taking care of the relationship.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you. This has been a good conversation and one in which I'm going to uh think about those relationships where I might need to do a check-in and also think about where I'm where I might have been prioritizing speed over uh building trust, or vice versa. And actually thinking about building trust first. So this is great.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks. Thank you so much, Charles. On behalf of both Charles and myself, we want to say a big thank you to our producer and sound editor, Chad Penner, Hilary Rideout of Inside Out Branding, who does our promotion, our amazing graphics and marketing for us. And our theme music was composed by Jonas Smith. If you have any questions or comments for us about the podcast, if you have a trust related situation that you'd like us to take up in one of our episodes, we'd To hear from you at trust at trustonpurpose.org.

SPEAKER_00:

And we'd also like to thank you, our listeners. Take care and keep building trust on purpose. Until next time.

SPEAKER_01:

Until next time.

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Charles Feltman

Host
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Ila Edgar

Host